January 19, 2005

Seeking suggestions

Nick, I just added the links to ‘Cryptomats section’ (however, Mehrdad will provide us with the graphically enhanced ver. of the Numogram) ... any suggestion for now?

Btw, I was thinking of some maps; for example, I had a map diagramming the geographic distribution of sects / heresies in Islam (Iran and Egypt had the most focused concentration from the time of Ibn Maymun) ... this for example is helpful for our ‘heresy-engineering’ division. A geographic distribution of oil wells in the Middle East for example is not a bad idea. Again, any suggestion, idea, materials?


Anyone (u/c, Tachi, Northanger, Val, Craig, et al), any suggestion or material?

Also we need a more expanded link-section but it messes up the side-bar, any solution?

Posted by at January 19, 2005 02:56 AM




check out projectseven.com for some ideas. live demo: http://projectseven.com/viewer/index.asp?demo=tmm

not suggesting you use anything there, but they're usually good with css

Posted by: northanger at January 19, 2005 02:59 AM



Reza - fantastic stuff! Tachi, especially, should be pleased because he's been calling for this sort of thing for a while.
If this turns into the kind of torrent your remarks suggest, it might be necessary to think about sub-grouping. Definitely better to make reference materials accessible this way than have them disappear into the archive.
Will think about additions (lots probably only virtual diagrams so far though).

Posted by: nick at January 19, 2005 07:46 AM



some quick techie thoughts: firstly, since games are a key element of the nummic continuum (games, counting, currencies, calendars) it's a shame everything over here is so serious ;) I was thinking of creating some online games, so maybe the geographically distributed HS readers/writers could play together as well as engineering heresies together...I have a few ideas from ancient games (rhymomachia seems an interesting one), but maybe it would be possible to do a numogram–based game too...I know it already exists in the form of Decadence, but don't know the rules.

Reza, look forward to the maps – and if you need any help animating these things in some way, just ask.

Also, would like to take up nick's suggestion elsewhere of feeding some 'live' data into nummificating mechanisms.
From my POV (may post about this soon) the glossolalary has functioned to show the inherent limitations (but interestingly so) of qabbala when tethered to a 'scientific' research program. But I'd like to do more with the genome results now there is lots of stuff in there.

I've been experimenting (the new machine I told you about, reza) with doing some stuff with markov chains and semantic vectors (meaning as function of word atom co-incidence) but. This is a particularly interesting area of research at the moment. An interesting area of research which is crucially important in spam-recognition-engines among others. Still in early stages, but I hope to be able to create synthetic versions of all contributors before the year's out ;)

Posted by: u/c at January 19, 2005 08:56 AM



ps. suitably terrified by first glance at ABJAD numogram !

Posted by: u/c at January 19, 2005 08:58 AM




The idea of an online game or some kind of P2P writing space between everyone at hyperstition is superbly ambitious, and maddeningly exciting / productive (Nick, this is a wonderful idea, isn’t it? ... what do you think?). I am personally ready to invest my time and everything I can do for this suggestion.

Guess, we need some systematic (apologies to mess-engineers for this word) / statistical evaluations before latching on to the project. For example, selecting the most of intensive zones of hyperstition which have been successful to date for both writers and readers-writers; an entirely open gamespace or semi-open? Also, we need a dynamic line / space/ diverging scenario which can afford the interests or probe-lines, make a fine gradient out of them (requiring some assembly-modules)

potential game platforms: puzzle, open dictionary, hyperfictional space, math (cryptomats), geometry, (un)patterns, etc.

re. The ABJAD ver. of the Numogram: Fortunately, Arabic ABJAD is among the structurally consistent ABJADs which fully correspond to the Numogram. Recently realized that if we set the ABJAD values / letters based on the number 9 (Zygonovistic sorcery), we have a table with 9 columns (corresponding to the linguistic table of verbal infinitives in Arabic language), the first column contains 4 rows (that means 4 letters) the rest 8 columns only possess 3 rows (one letter in each row); this is exactly the table of ‘Vazns’ (the rhythmical structures of verbal infinitives); each column, at least, consists one meaningful verbal infinitives. In Arabic language you can make an entire dictionary from one verbal infinitive (there are 8 patterns that work with 3 letters) and one exceptional pattern that works with 4 letters (the first column of ‘Abjad 9-based table’ which includes four letters Alif, Ya, Ghaaf and Ghayn). Ok, this sounds confusing because it needs some intermediate knowledge of Arabic language. For example Shams (Sun) = 400, 400 is located in the numogramic cell of the number 4. In this cell, we have Daal, Meem and Ta: the first verbal infinitive that you can extract from this cell is Ta, Meem, Dal which reads TAMADA; now you can at least generate 8 words with this verbal infinitive all meaning ‘stretching in Time’, the noun you can make based on this verbal infinitive and letters is Moddat = Aeon : Shams = Sun; and the story goes on ... :)

Posted by: Reza at January 19, 2005 03:50 PM




>>> If this turns into the kind of torrent your remarks suggest, it might be necessary to think about sub-grouping. Definitely better to make reference materials accessible this way than have them disappear into the archive.
Will think about additions (lots probably only virtual diagrams so far though).

i'd appreciate more info about sub-grouping; do you mean categories, a rhyzomatic site map, ...?

Posted by: Reza at January 19, 2005 03:52 PM



Reza - [shiver, snuffle, shnurrk]
- just being pedestrian and practical, sounds like we could soon have so much stuff on the side-bar that we'll need some top-end meta-categories grouping a set of related materials (is this technically feasible?) e.g. Qabbalistic machinery; Numogram variants; Geostrategic maps ... dunno exactly what would be the best way of organizing it all - anyway, don't let me start a panic until the problem actually arises

Reza/ u/c - obviously share the enthusiasm, but from my PoV these ideas sound very ambitious, so the u/c time-frame (months not weeks) seems immediately plausible

u/c - Abjad Numogram is actually extremely consistent with canonical qabbalistic procedures - marking the most direct conversion of gematria into true qabbala (this links to a previous northanger remark). All gematrified alphabets (Hebrew, Greek x 2, Arabic, Farsi, Neoroman x n) could be processed this way - numerized, digitally reduced and mapped. It raises lots of interesting questions (i.e. the status of the letter as a level of qabbalistic analysis, as opposed to the lexical 'molecule'), but its procedural rigour is unexceptionable, and i'm sure if the weird squiggly shapes weren't warping your brain the inevitability of this step would impose itself automatically ...

PS. Reza - your last flurry of remarks obviously unprocessed in my comment - assuming we're going to get a full-blown post on this somewhere down the line ...

Posted by: nick at January 19, 2005 04:11 PM



reza, is there a post somewhere of the form "what is ABJAD? for idiots"

Posted by: u/c at January 19, 2005 06:16 PM



some (perhaps rather ambitious and abstract) general game requirements that spring to mind:

1.Non-synchronism : given the nature of the medium, it must be possible for players to log in and "make their moves" in the absence of other players, at any time

2.Constructivism: if a player invests time in the game, this should be reflected in their profile/territory/stakes/whatever, so they become a participant in changing the nature of the game. No 'something for nothing' - By the same token, if "open", it should be robustly resistant to destruction by lazy trollist terrorism.

There's no reason why, given a loose-enough axiomatic to start with, (2) shouldn't involve players participating in changing the rules too. So

3.Begin with a minimal set of rules and elements that have the potential to build into unanticipated collective entities (Go as model). This also means it will be non-narrative (the game has no overcoded story)

4.Resistance :The game system has to be tough enough to resist control. It might for instance involve background processes that transform things continuously (we all have to sleep (except Reza, who might gain the advantage here ;))

5.Currency (to return to tachi's questions on my guanxi post) - without currency, no compulsion to play. Currency meaning (a) common means of exchange/numbering which are entirely within the game-system (cannot be forged) and compel a certain level of involvement in it; and (b) irreducible now-orientation (opportunities can be lost, unstoppable events can happen, participants can be ruined...) Thus the creation of the game is indistinguishable from an inquisition into currency. (In my mind this is also bound up with competition - I can't see a co-operative collectivist endeavour generating much excitement. But that's up for argument.)

6."It" should evolve into something dense, oblique, decentred,massive, and able to click into other "games". But at the same time we are limited as to resources, so it has to do this smartly (inventive use of number/qwernospaces: again, Go as model)


Posted by: u/c at January 19, 2005 06:39 PM



just trying to get a handle on why Go is such a good model - think it's actually the _combination_ of slowly-evolving high-level entities with the instant gratification of low-level fights; so maybe should add (7)It has to work at different speeds simultaneously (although this could be deduced from the others)

Posted by: u/c/again at January 19, 2005 06:44 PM



u/c ... ABJAD for non-dummies ;)


there should be another informative article on the net. where did i put those launch codes, sorry i mean urls? let me see.

Posted by: Reza at January 20, 2005 12:59 AM



u/c - noticed when nummificator is first accessed & a word entered an initial wordlist appears, but after clicking another gematria button & returning to AQ a different wordlist appears. eg, enter OMEGA; wordlist: drug, globe, khabs, etc; click GON2 button; click AQ button; wordlist: agenda, dagon, dream, etc.

would really help if these wordlists were synched together somehow.

Posted by: northanger at January 20, 2005 02:35 AM



u/c + Nick,

Nick, best wishes for a speedy recovery ... rest enough meanwhile i'm planning to raze your walls to the ground (just kidding). I've been infected too, head clogged with a slimy residue inherited from the Old Ones :)

ok, let's discuss about sub-grouping (concrete / pseudo-technical limitations, advantages, methods etc.). u/c, wonderful suggestions. i'll return to all these this evening or tomorrow morning. Things are getting white-hot on the archeological front here.

Posted by: Reza at January 20, 2005 02:39 AM



u/c - highly captivated by your suggestions, we need to get a suggestion-spiral operating on this project - your initial principles here seem like a great place to start.
The lure of immanence is the possibility that the 'system' you are envisaging could be brought to a threshold where it would begin to autoconstruct through being 'played' - with the emergence of higher-order 'rules' being themselves outcomes of strategic participation by an open multiplicity of agents (of course, this is easy to say)

Reza - those Old One diseases can be hard to shake off - take care

Posted by: nick at January 20, 2005 03:08 AM



Reza, Nick, u/c - fantastic this is going on! Been out of the loop for a bit and struggling with time to keep my hooks into the flow here, but very excited that this kind of discussion is going on.

Want to contribute something practical and interesting if I can, but for now have to say that there is a lot bubbling up - the *interest* is the most important and I see that here - great.

IMHO we need to think about two things - what we want to put on the site and how that will be clustered / organized. This includes what will appear on the home page, what is important enough to maintain in the side bar (and whether this will change in different 'zones'), as well as clearly distinguished zones (top-end headers) before the organization of those zones can be thought through.

u/c's idea of a gaming zone/dimension is excellent, though not sure how it will look / function.

Hope to be more supportive soon ... :)

Posted by: Tachi at January 20, 2005 04:05 AM



nrthngr: it's a hangover from the enforced rebranding of hyperhex (machine defaults to 'HEX' rather than 'AQ' when it starts up), I'll fix it later.

Posted by: u/c at January 20, 2005 09:16 AM



thanks, ueue

Posted by: northanger at January 20, 2005 09:47 AM



i think you should have a virtual reality numogram & then you can have zones & gatekeepers & barriers ... so moving between zones is an experience, a happening ... where the gamer would ask themselves: 'how do i get there from here?' + then they can see that by doing X here (ala werner) causes Y to happen over there. -but, i'm just being silly.

Posted by: northanger at January 20, 2005 09:52 AM



northanger - sounds lovely ;) - but also sounds more like some gigabandwidth VR-thang than the Go-type (vastly more practical) model u/c is realistically aiming at.
Actually, there seems to be some weird 'remember those E days' vibe going on right now - K-punk has got all retrospective and the 0D stuff over at your place fits right in - maybe enough time has passed for a productive retrocritique of the whole 'VR-coming-right-at-us' moment (back when peace seemed normal) - think a minimalistic u/c type approach is more likely to move forward on a consistent basis though (intriguing to me that all those late 90s vectors have gone AWOL in (i imagine) different ways)
simple rules are the key - with Go or with u/c 2005 - q. is whether we can work out a few than comply with the principles outlined

Posted by: nick at January 20, 2005 03:47 PM



i said i was being silly, niki
GO=HAD, actually a great idea.

what are e-days and what is 0D stuff?

Posted by: northanger at January 20, 2005 04:43 PM



northanger - K-punk has done two reminiscence posts on this now, IMHO the first is the most touching (not being sarky, basically mean the snake-thing at max intensity (really sizzling, believe me)) - actually lots of interesting issues if people can be remotely objective about it, which is probably asking a lot.
0D mix of utterly mutational and dooming elements - isn't everything? - K-punk post sent me onto googol, seems everything from that epoch has had to shift tracks (at least)
didn't you get 'E'? - your 'loss' (pure seratonin production, so it totally Xed everybody in the end - Vauung fortunate enough to be on an even more catastrophic trajectory, so it scarcely noticed. Interesting Simon Reynolds analyses of the whole tide)

Posted by: nick at January 20, 2005 05:29 PM



"K-punk has done two reminiscence posts on this now" - KP is sort of my new addiction i think. maybe a cold rational thing. (my own personal jesus). since when, nicholas, have you ever wanted folks to be remotely objective? where can i get "The Meat (or How to Kill Oedipus in Cyberspace)"?

d0h, 0D = 0(rphan)d(rift>) --------- does E=England? why did you leave england, nick?

great! googled these--
CYBERPOSITIVE - http://www.sterneck.net/cybertribe/cyber/sadie-plant-nick-land/index.php
SADIE PLANT - http://www.t0.or.at/sadie/sadie.htm

Posted by: northanger at January 20, 2005 08:04 PM



Reynolds says E took everyone down into the darkness - which is what you'd expect from a number 14

"why did you leave england" - drizzle, misery, claustrophobic soc.i.a.l.i.s.m and ambient class hatred - what's not to like?

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 04:37 AM



why China, then?

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 05:49 AM




Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 06:25 AM



"sinophilia" - ah, naked power or mechanomics?

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 07:57 AM



according to a rude french sociologist, the collapse-brain's 'wildstyle' essay was "probably written on E."

northanger, the numfctr problem is fixed now.

Surely the problem with virtual reality was always that it started with a stupid idea of what reality was...?

Posted by: u/c at January 21, 2005 10:19 AM



time-lord: See "chronocrator".

chronocrator: Derived from the greek word "chronos", meaning "time" and "crator" meaning "lord", hence: time lord. It is a planet that has governance over an individuals life for a period of time on a given subject.

decennia: One of the greek time lord systems based upon the minor periods of the planets, counted in months: Saturn 30, Jupiter 12, Mars 15, Sun 19, Venus 8, Mercury 20, Moon 25 = 129 months (10 yrs, 9 mths), starting with the planet period that is in sect (giving it 10 years and 9 months), and handing over sub periods (in months) to the planets following in zodiacal order from birth (again based upon the minor period). After 10 years and 9 months, the next planet in the order of the signs from the last major period receives the current major period.

sect: Comes from the greek word hairesis, meaning division. In this case the division is into two: day and night. The planets of the daytime division (sect) are the Sun, Jupiter and Saturn, and the planets of the nocturnal sect are the Moon, Venus and Mars. Mercury is of neither sect and is a go between for both.

In 2003, learned about Vettius Valens & Time Lord Systems. "Vettius Valens suggests using a 360 day year for all time lord systems (with the exception of the "Quarters" method)." Decided to create a time-lord system using Hebrew Alphabet . With finals, that was 27 letters cycling through 360 days, creating 9 time lords. Enochian Calendar also uses 360 days plus 4 uncounted days for the solstices & equinoxes. Second time lord system I installed revised Jacob's Wheel (Hebrew) as an Enochian time system utilizing the Sigillum Dei Æmeth and Enochian Alphabet of 21 letters. Added a wildcard letter to bring it 22: time-lords were the sons/sons/daughters of light on the SDA -- 22 time lords & 484 gates. Start date was the transmission of the Law of Thelema (April 8, 1904). Worked several versions of that system. November 2004 was the end-of-year, as I was resetting things for the next "year" I decided to reset start date from April 8th to April 1st (this would have been a Good Friday in 1904, some believe that Crowley may have fudged the date). My last working gate was #361, for some reason, got confused on the gates.

The ironic thing about the number 361 is that it is one degree outside the circle. OAMOSGRBMCONNNIIII appears on the Problems & Mysteries post and forms an acrostic by using the first letter of each Enochian Key.


I was in the process of stepping through all the procedures to re-create the system when Hyperstition showed up. Immediately recognized that Pandemonium was a time lord system. Also 9-zones correlating to 9 moon phases. Got impression all my gates got "blown" and I needed to transfer to this pandemonic system.

There wasn't much on Valens in 2003, but a quick search brought up some more links. Never got into specific details on Hellenistic time lord systems - didn't have the books. My understanding, however, is that some "break" occurred with the Greeks and a lot of information got lost. Also, lots of Persian astrologers of note (Al-Biri?). Robert Hand, Project Hindsight and Curtis Manwaring do a lot in this area HA area. Robert Zoller is into medieval astrology, check out his PREDICTION AND 11TH SEPTEMBER 2001 -- http://new-library.com/zoller/features/ -------

ALSO, G. Kumar - Zodiac Computers
talks about "Law of Vibration" - This Law states that each number has a particular vibration. Astro-Numerology is the synthesis of Astrology and Numerology ... The nine numbers correspond to the nine planets in Astrology.

The concept of the Fadic Number :: If you add up all the digits which comprise your date of birth eg -(23/06/1955 = 2+3+0+6+1+9+5+5 = 31, 3+1 = 4 ) you get the combined Fadic Number. Here in this example it is 31. 3 plus 1 = 4. So 4 is the Fadic Number. Find out the Fadic Number of the person concerned. There are effects for both Fadic and the Combined Fadic Numbers. Once you find the Fadic Number of the person, know that that person will have the characteristics of the planet representing that Number. Now we are giving here the effects for Unitarians, who are ruled by the Number ONE.


What is so special about Hellenistic Astrology?
However, the most noteworthy consideration about the Hellenistic period is the transformation that occurred through the synthesis of the Persian and Chaldean astrology, with Egyptian religion and astronomy, and the Greek Natural philosophy. This single event would appear to be the catalyst, which changed the oracular to the very personal. While I use the term event, I use it rather loosely here. In the "time-line" of history, it fills a rather large period from about 800 - 100 B.C.E. As you can see it did not "happen over night".

This catalogue is not intended to be either definitive or exhaustive. Its purpose is to give the student a somewhat impressionistic overview of the origins and transmission of Hellenistic astrology from the 2nd century B.C.E. through the 5th or 6th centuries C.E., up to the time when Arabian influences begin to change the character of this astrology.

Diagrams and Tables

Vettius Valens: The Anthology; (Circa 160 C.E.)
In Book IV, Valens commences his discussion of the division of the times into favorable and unfavorable periods, and the various procedures for the establishment of time-lords (chronocrators) that govern these time periods. Valens concentrates on three basic procedures in this book, although he alludes to several others in passing. The first employs quarters of the minor periods of the planets beginning from the planet immediately following the prenatal lunation; Valens provides no instructions regarding when to employ this procedure or how to interpret it. The second procedure begins from the signs of the lots of Fortune and Spirit, and establishes time-lords by taking the domicile lords of the signs in zodiacal order. Valens goes into considerable detail concerning when to use this procedure and how to interpret it in the context of a given nativity. The second half of this book is mainly an exposition of Valens' preferred time-lord procedure, which establishes annual time-lords for all the planets, the four angles, and four lots, by means of annual "protections" from their natal signs (although profections from the Sun, Moon, and Ascendant are most important). He lavishes a great deal of attention on this procedure, providing numerous keys to their interpretation, explaining how planets making solar phases or ingresses affect these time-lords; since the topical place of the time-lord is a principal device in specifying them to a given nativity, Valens also includes a chapter listing the basic significations of the twelve places. Finally, he records specific delineations of the various planets as they become time-lords relative to each of the 15 starting points. Valens next alludes to a time-lord procedure based on the degree ruler of the natal Moon (attributed to Critodemus). Then he moves to a discussion of some algorithms for determining the sign of the year by profections from the lord of Sun, Moon, Ascendant, or Lot of Fortune, depending on which is more qualified for this role, a procedure attributed to one Hermeias. Appended to this are related algorithms for determining the sign of the monthly and daily protections, with some additional instructions to perform directions from every planet to every planet. Valens concludes with some brief algorithms for subdividing the year. There are three example charts in this book.

VOL. XIV: PTOLEMY. TETRABIBLOS, Bk IV. -- a treatment of Ptolemy's preferred system and hierarchy of time-lords.The translator's preface contains a discussion of sect and related rejoicing conditions in

VOL. XV: HEPHAISTIO OF THEBES. COMPENDIUM, Bk II. a discussion of the time-lord method later called decennials accompanied by fairly elaborate delineations of planet pairs

Firmicus Maternus: The Mathesis. (Circa 334 C.E.)
Book II presents an exposition of the basic concepts and principles of Hellenistic astrology: the signs and their domicile lords, the exaltations and falls of the planets, the decans, the bounds (or "terms"), sect, orientality or occidentality, rising times of the signs, the winds or directions associated with the triplicities, the twelfth-parts of the signs (or 12th harmonics), the eight-topic system of places (or "houses"), the angles, good or bad places, the twelve-topic system of topical places, configurations of signs, body parts assigned to the signs, length of life from the ruler of the nativity, the time-lord procedure called "decennials," the method of profecrions for finding the sign of the year, the division of the year according to time-lords. Firmicus then gives considerable attention to anticia, which he considers to be a very important predictive device (somewhat idiosyncratically), which he illustrates with the chart of one Albinus. He concludes with a section on how the astrologer should live his life.

Making Time out of Space: An Introduction to Planetary Periods

The Greek Time-Lords: Two thousand years ago, Vettius Valens and other ancient astrologers were using the minor years of the planets as a kind of master key for forecasting destiny. They used it in several different ways, but always from a specific starting point.

The function of this list has not been completely clear. Certainly these figures were useful in computing future position of planets. Although the list appears in most ancient and medieval books on astrology, it was dropped sometime during the Renaissance. Thanks to Project Hindsight we now have access to a large number of ancient texts including Vettius Valen's book "The Anthology," probably the most important astrological book of the Roman period. Valens, a real hard-working astrologer, offered several ways that this list could be used to designate time periods in a person's life. We call these planets, when their periods are in effect, chronocrators or "the Time-Lords."

The Least or Minor Years of the Planets (2)
Sun - 19 (Metonic Cycle)
Moon - 25 (309 lunation cycles in 25 Egyptian years of 365 days)
Mercury - 20 (63 synodic cycles in 20 Egyptian years)
Venus - 8 (5 synodic cycles of Venus equals 8 solar years)
Mars - 15 (7 synodic cycles in 15 Egyptian)
Jupiter - 12 (11 synodic cycles in 12 Egyptian years)
Saturn - 30 (29 synodic cycles in 30 Egyptian years)

also: info on The Decennia

Firdar, Alfridaria, or Alfridaries

Zodiacal Aphesis and Planetary Period Chronocrators
The ancient astrologers had a different methods for judging how the life unfolds than modern astrologers do. In modern astrology, it has been customary to look at planets that closely aspect (by transit or progression) natal planets. The more closely aspecting and more numerous aspects to a single degree were the "hot" spots to be paid attention to because these were the transits that manifested themselves as "events". (Aspects are those degree angles of separation based upon a division of the circle such as by 1 = 0 degrees = conjunction, by 2 = 180 = opposition, by 3 = 120 = trine, by 4 = 90 = square, by 6 = 60 = sextile, etc....) The ancient position was that a planet does not "transit" unless it is a chronocrator for the times for the issue being sought. This would explain the times that a transit appears to be blind, i.e., does not manifest in any obvious way.

Based on the Vital Number, another system of Numerology existed. The signs of the Zodiac from Aries was counted as one, two etc and the ruler of that sign was assigned that number. The Combined Vital number was represented by a key planet and this planet was the planet of Destiny.

Combined Number from Life/Vital Lord of Life
date of birth Number
29 1...........................................MARS
11 38 47 2.................................VENUS
12 21 39 48 3............................MERCURY
13 22 31 49 4............................MOON
14 23 32 41 5............................SUN
15 24 33 42 51 6.......................MERCURY
16 25 34 43 52 7.......................VENUS
17 26 35 44 53 8.......................MARS
18 27 36 45 54 9........................JUPITER
10 19 20 28 37 40 46 55 0........SATURN

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 10:41 AM



>>>according to a rude french sociologist, the collapse-brain's 'wildstyle' essay was "probably written on E." -- thank you for getting me on the clue bus.

>>>northanger, the numfctr problem is fixed now. -- thank you fixing this thing, i think.

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 10:43 AM



northanger - so are you using this system?
The noise-to-signal ratio must be somewhat on the high side, no? (- doggedly pursuing objectivity, as always)
'Fadic numbering' builds in so much dirty contingent data that it practically demands stupendous paranoiac metatheory to redeem it (miraculous montheisms spring immediately to mind) - but I guess that's sort of invigorating ((?)). The Oecumenic (Gregorian) Calendar is necessitated by astral fate? Vettius Valens implicitly prophecized the modern calendar? Head spinning a bit on this ...
Assuming that the extraneously determined 'characters' of the planets need to be fed-in for significant results to emerge?
Ptolemy had time lords?
"The nine numbers correspond to the nine planets in Astrology" - this obviously almost irresistable.
(XYoids often have comprehension problems with this astrocommunications stuff i've noticed)
Actually fascinated - anything that encourages sensitivity to supraterrestrial influences has to be libidinizing (think the extraplanetary events data on your site is great - special soft-spot for cosmic storms), but traditional astral numerization/interpretation machinery seems kind of jury-rigged ...

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 01:14 PM



"so are you using this system?" - what system? greek or pandemonium?

"The noise-to-signal ratio must be somewhat on the high side, no?" - yes, but that's where numerology, qabbala, cyphers, zero point, and other factors come into play. a time system allows certain "laws" to come into play, whether they are natural or synthetic. however, the critical issue is defining a time system that locks micro-with-macro. this might help.........

In the following I'm describing a system to "work" with the so-called "Genii" of the Mercury sphere. These beings are known in the original Hebrew Kabbalah as the 72 Genii or "Names of God" or as the 72 lettered Name of God. The system, which I am about to describe was created by Franz Buchmann-Naga and was published by him under the name "Schlüssel zu den 72 Gottesnamen der Kabbalah" (= "Key to the 72 Names of God of the Kabbalah").

>>>>>231 - Liber Arcanorum -- "The Book of the Secrets of the Atu of Tahuti, which Asar saw in Amenti (under the number 231). The Book of the Prison of the Qliphoth with their Geniis, their symbols and names are added"

Crowley's Liber 231 displays the names & sigils of two sets of spirits of the Major Arcana (ATU) of the Tarot: DOMARUM MERCURII (House of Mercury) + CARCERORUM QLIPHOTH (Prison of the Shells). The Abode of the House of Mercury represents the 22 spirits that indicate each trump's "representitive agent of transmission; The Abode of the Prison of the Shells represents the 22 spirits indicating the KEY which locs up the "troublesome or destructive opposition to that transmission". Both sets (22+22=44) -- and keep in mind what I said about the 45 Spirits of Pandemonium (remove Lurgo and there are 44) -- "demonstrate the entire magical spectrum of influence" represented for each Major Arcana card: "the genii of the Atu standing guard over the prison of the qliphoth". --- these names and sigils appear on Lon Milo DuQuette's Ceremonial Magick Tarot.>>>>NOTE: papermagnets - According to BN steel-magnets can be replaced by "paper-magnets", "because they emit as symbols electric and magnetic waves to the most distant points of our earth". III 2: When we use the 72 Names of God as talismans, then the number of the words and letters correspond to the numbers of the planets and by proper combination they would provoke the corresponding effects ... BN claims that the diagram of a steel-magnet has an objective relation to a real steel-magnet ... to all things, even if they are only of a symbolical nature, are attached "ideas" that represent the character of the corresponding real objects<<<<<

The Crux of this work is the construction of a talisman, which really represents the higher principles; such a talisman must therefore be DESIGNED IN ACCORDANCE TO THE INVOLVED LAWS. If one makes any error then no resonance is established and the talisman remains without effect. The RESONANCE PRINCIPLE principle becomes effective through the constellations of the planets and their combinations in regard to each Genius. As we can read in Bardon's PME each Genius is assigned to a specific "place" on the zodiac. The zodiac is divided into 360 degrees. Each of the 72 Genii governs an area of 5°: 360°/72=5°.
Now follows the description in which manner the invocation formulas are used to represent the influences of the planets (spheres) according to BN. For that end we must divide the zodiac into 72 segments. First into four quadrants of 90°. Each of the four quadrants is assigned to three signs, 3 x 30° = 90° x 4 = 360° = 12 signs. Each sign must now be divided into three decanats of 10°. Finally each decanat must be divided into two segments of 5°, so that each of the 72 Names can be attributed to one of the segments: 4 x 3 = 12, 12 x 3 = 36, 36 x 2 = 72. 6 Genii, each one ruling 5°, per sign x 12 = 72 Names (= 360°).

This grouping of 6 Genii (Names of God) is sustained also by the Bahir. In paragraph 110 the Bahir states about the 72 Names: "... These are the 72 names. They emanate and divide themselves into three sections, 24 to each section. ... Each sections has four directions to watch, east, west, north and south. They are therefore distributed, six to each direction. ..." Important is also the following sentence in the same paragraph: "All of them are sealed with YHVH ...". This is a further indication, that we must use the tetragrammaton on the front side of the talisman. Each sign is ruled by a given planet...

Each decanat must be divided into two additional segments of 5°, so that it can be attributed to one single Genius. With this division further planetary influences come into play, which are called by BN the "border-influences".

Now that we know how BN assigns the influences of the planets to each Genius, I will point out how BN sets up the connection between the calling practitioner and a Genius. The link used by BN is a kind of "numerical magic". We know that to each planet is assigned a number. These correspondences are now used for the construction of the talisman. The link between the calling practitioner and a Genius is established by the invocation formula on the talisman.

if you look at the excel file i sent you previously, you'll see that zero point = cancer. zodiac cancer was selected to establish synchro-asynchro (rhizomatic?) system resonance. this emergent time system comprises classic Goëtic+Angelic Twinning acting as the system's CNS (but, probably mapping to numogram?); and the new time lords, from what i gather, appear to be the Pandemonium Matrix -- nope, not on this system.

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 04:56 PM



northanger - this is intense. going to need some time to get even a ghost of a grip ...
What's your feeling about chopping Lurgo out? If you're looking to make enemies, isn't the primary gate-keeper a problematic place to start? seems to me vudu practitioners might be tempted to whisper in your ear on this ...
72, 72, gotta start keeping track of this, why does Oddubb get all the fun (virgins/raisins and all) ...
"22 spirits" - highly sceptical - sheer bleating traditionalism without true qabbalistic confirmation IMHO.
360 - no getting away from this (especially in your case), but Fadic numbering seems an extremely flaky way to make the connection.
"We know that to each planet is assigned a number" - based on Ptolemaic astronomy? hmmmm
Rhizo stuff hugely interesting - holding back on this for this the moment (but supportive of what I'm reading as your take on the subject).
Definitely hoping for more "astro-numeric" influence here - and thinking it's going to have to come from you - so not being querulous just for the sake of it ...

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 05:18 PM



[gosh nick, still answering your first response]

'Fadic numbering' builds in so much dirty contingent data that it practically demands stupendous paranoiac metatheory to redeem it (miraculous montheisms spring immediately to mind) - but I guess that's sort of invigorating ((?)). The Oecumenic (Gregorian) Calendar is necessitated by astral fate? Vettius Valens implicitly prophecized the modern calendar? Head spinning a bit on this ...

"Vettius Valens implicitly prophecized the modern calendar" - hmmm, maybe so. maybe the reason why astrology has such a bad rep these days ... makes you wonder ... is a new world order established when the world follows the same clock? btw, Sir Sandford Fleming first proposed universal standard time for the entire world.

should/does the astral establish the calendar? i think so, that's why i live on a 12-day week and not a 7-day week. 12-days represent the signs of the zodiac which all planets traverse (not getting into 11- or 13-zodiacs at this point). however, i suggest a calendar that emerges from the four worlds: terrestrial-man (assiah) astral-adam (yetzirah), mind-idea[philosophy?] (briah), archetype-number (atziluth).

what are we aligned with when we use the gregorian calendar? today, different systems are being developed/used/suggested. what i find interesting, from an occult standpoint, is John Dee's involvement with english calendar reform. doesn't Dee's angelic system -- with alphabet, and therefore gematria/qabbala -- emerge from his quest for empire ((?)). can the enochian system be viewed as a time lord system, since the book of enoch mentions a calendar? does Dee's fall into the abyss, after the death of Elizabeth I, point to King James' rejection of Dee's fundamental ideas about empire-building?

>>>>>>John Dee and the English Calendar: Science, Religion and Empire
This paper deals with the English rejection of the Gregorian calendar in 1583, seeking to set this episode in its cultural, political and intellectual context. It concentrates particularly upon the work of John Dee, whose treatise of advice to the queen on the calendar reform is almost the only one of his major writings which has not (as far as I am aware) been studied in any depth in published writings. I argue that Dee's calendar treatise offers important insights into his natural philosophy and provides the keystone of his vision of empire.

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 05:39 PM



fadic numbering = decimal reduction

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 05:41 PM



northanger PS - ignore Lurgo remarks - made in the wrong mode ((very) crudely practical rather than theoretico-numerical) - '0' does that to people - but seriously, Lurgo/Legba/Logobubb by far the chattiest pandemonium entity, so offer her a glass of brandy and a candle even if you're hacking her out of the numeric total (Vysparov adopted the same ambiguous approach) - you're right, it's 44 (at least Vysparov thought so)

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 05:43 PM



major time-slippage

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 05:44 PM



"sheer bleating traditionalism without true qabbalistic confirmation" - then use the english alphabet (26-letters) my lad.

"What's your feeling about chopping Lurgo out?" - ain't chopping anybody out, only making an observation: 22 x 22 = 484. 484 / 44 = 11. you tell me about the AQ-PANDEMONIC time system .... coz, i haven't been able to figure it out yet.

"If you're looking to make enemies, isn't the primary gate-keeper a problematic place to start? seems to me vudu practitioners might be tempted to whisper in your ear on this ..." - ye gods, talk about "bleating traditionalism". i should remind you most emphatically (it times like this i can really feel it in the blood), i'm a chaote, we're (1) lazy, and (2) like to smush stuff around at our pleasure.

i love the phrase, "i serve at the pleasure of the president" -- any thelemic time system serves at the pleasure of...

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 05:48 PM



"ignore Lurgo remarks" - argh.

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 05:50 PM



"fadic numbering = decimal reduction" - this needs more, surely. The 'problem' here is to do with the initial numerization of birth dates and it's dependence upon specific calendric regimes. OK, it's imaginable a higher fatality has ensured these coincidences (consequential numerical outcomes) will fit together, but the overall problematic at least deserves attention - the Gregorian calendric reforms as a catastrophic transformation of time-qabbalization for instance.
"should/does the astral establish the calendar? i think so" - hugely interesting remark, but also hugely obscure - haven't all calendric projects attempted to satisfy this condition?
"i live on a 12-day week and not a 7-day week" - also mind-blowingly intriguing, and obscure, assuming it's a mark of adherence to Chaldean astronomy and Sumerian arithmetic, but isn't the problem precisely that the numerical order of the heavens has actually proved so incredibly messy? 360 may be a lovely number (it is! it is!), but the stars are oblivious to it ... you have to agree?
You've written an essay on Dee and astrology? OK, i'm off to look at it ...

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 05:55 PM



nick, i'm the zig to your zag: a time system is the singular critical factor of a rhizomatic structure, IMNVHO

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 05:56 PM



"'ignore Lurgo remarks' - argh" - sort of worried that might happen

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 05:57 PM



OK, I'm going to have a cigarette while you sort out the time-slippage problem ...

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 05:58 PM



"haven't all calendric projects attempted to satisfy this condition?" - astral = yetzirah (formation). ask yourself, how is power established on earth? then you'll understand calendars and time lords.

we really need to be able to correctly decipher the following: Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 06:02 PM



"360 may be a lovely number (it is! it is!), but the stars are oblivious to it ... you have to agree?" -- well, always thought of crowley's infamous ellipse as a hymen --

The mandorla represents the vulva, and thus the arrival of a new being in the world; it is the Idiot reborn. The mandorla is a sign of union, coming (climax), opening and departure into a new life. So also the Saturnalia marks the beginning of a new year, and a new journey begins for the Idiot. However, the beginning of a new cycle does not imply starting over where we began, which is why the dancer is surrounded by an ellipse rather than a circle, for the ellipses represents development rather than endless repetition (which we may find in 10.Wheel). Further, an ellipse has two foci rather than one, which, as we have seen, represents the creative interpenetration of heaven and earth, also symbolized by the mutually ouroboros (tail-eating) serpents, and the celestial and mundane worlds as mutual reflections ("as above so below"). The ellipse unites the two poles and brings them into correspondence.

nicki, my system got "blown" because i'm trying to figure out what works. i think the numogram, pandemonium, etc., provides some interesting clues to what MAY WORK. ...

gosh, i need to catch a serious clue bus on time-slippage.

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 06:10 PM



these authorities are not significantly reducing my reservations

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 06:12 PM



"my system got 'blown' because i'm trying to figure out what works" - be assured star child, tears are flowing here in abundance

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 06:15 PM



"Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes" - this especially inspiring

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 06:17 PM



oh gosh. ::tissue::

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 06:19 PM



"Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes" - well, decipher that one, nicholai


says in the bible that god has a free market system, if i'm not mistaken

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 06:22 PM



"a time system is the singular critical factor of a rhizomatic structure" - disturbingly enough (for all concerned) think there's full agreement on this, so probably wise you're being suitably Humble about it ;)
rhizome - everything links to everything else - mathematico-qabbalistically: combinatoric completion

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 06:23 PM



time slippage doing my head in, plus goddam computer now telling me hyperstition could 'seriously damage my system' - time for another nicotine break
PS. this one: "oh gosh. ::tissue::" entirely escaped me
"FULL ARMOR OF GOD = FREE ENTERPRISE" - this is truly grotesque (never imagined American spelling could be so depraved)

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 06:30 PM



ISAIAH 55: 1 Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost. 2 Why spend money on what is not bread, and your labor on what does not satisfy?

Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of fare. 3 Give ear and come to me; hear me, that your soul may live. I will make an everlasting covenant with you, my faithful love promised to David. 4 See, I have made him a witness to the peoples, a leader and commander of the peoples. 5 Surely you will summon nations you know not, and nations that do not know you will hasten to you, because of the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, for he has endowed you with splendor.

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 06:32 PM



argh. ignore tissues. what is this time slippage thingy you keep mentioning?

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 06:34 PM



gotta crash (two hours ago) - so take your time.
"time slippage thingy" will miraculously disappear, due either to
1) Vauung neurosubsidence
2) Divine gratitude for biblical citations
according to taste
Go commune with the stars - we need this 'dimension' (otherwise how will we know when 'the stars are right'? - no one else seriously tackling this problem at the moment)

Posted by: nick at January 21, 2005 06:44 PM



okie dokie ...

John 15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

John 17 I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours ... they are not of the world ... My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one

Matthew 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.

[accept these quotes in the spirit given, but, just in case, HAIL SATAN!]

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 06:50 PM



i will go eat & work on stardust charts

Posted by: northanger at January 21, 2005 06:51 PM



>what is this time slippage thingy you keep

Ah, I thought this was some secret code between you and nick, but obviously just between nick and vaauung, LOL

Posted by: u/c at January 22, 2005 05:33 PM



"secret code between you and nick" - gosh, i just got here and i use secret code? i'm thinking you guys got some SC working and i haven't a clue what you're talking about sometimes. nice to know i'm not the only one looking for the cluebus. :)

Posted by: northanger at January 22, 2005 06:06 PM



what's your sign nick? you're not a gemini are you? maybe you're a leo, or a libra.

Posted by: northanger at January 22, 2005 06:20 PM




Posted by: nick at January 23, 2005 12:50 AM



"schizofyszies" - ah, the 13th sign. severe splittage occurs when poorly aspected. poor you.

Posted by: northanger at January 23, 2005 12:53 AM



so what's your excuse?

Posted by: nick at January 23, 2005 01:11 AM



"so what's your excuse?" - haven't you read allan bennett? have no need for any excuses.

Posted by: northanger at January 23, 2005 01:14 AM




Posted by: nick at January 23, 2005 01:50 AM



reza - check out (can't believe i found this) GOG MAGOG crop circle formation - http://www.cropcircleanswers.com/ccc2001_article.htm

Posted by: northanger at January 24, 2005 10:21 AM



Post a comment:

Remember personal info?