You're looking for mentally sound enough currriculum / structure to carry a whole lodda parasitic marginals without a bit of a bother, hell you'll farm'm even like the 'emsige ameise' you are, you are not troubled by the vastness of peripheral proliferation as long as their surplus is usable. You are hoping decimalicious decimalism will see/pull you through? I prefer 5, 7 or 13 component strictures .. . May I trouble you with a tale of physically sound structure to illustrate?

. . . just broke through a mental wall at scent of space lemme tale yall .. . .

. . . following ana's links once again (been benefattening on 'm)
I arrive at a three d cabalatry hermetic.com/browe-archive/achad/anatomy/anatomy7.htm
Now, it's not that I hadn't really seen this thingy before (being a faithful readerupper on what Dan Winter sends down the sewer schewer eschewer, screwer jewer lines), but this time a spark flies, a membrane breaks and bubbly birth bursts forth all at once.
Seems like Wessel di Wesseli's perpetuummobile(dotinfo) died but you can see his ideas here: moai.pl/3d02enoma.html -- I made a very crude diagram (to mimic this more artistic rendition) last november members.lycos.nl/vadercats/nov04.htm and nov04too.htm--

Now read this matter thoroughly, I implore you to do so from the bottom of my heart, then imagine 3 instead of 1 railcircuitset sharing/bundling half of each trajectory (the bellows going down empty together) in the central axis before coming back up full with a vengeance after filling at the bottom seperately via one of the three outlyers, that would keep the thing in balance much better than a single track, BREAKTHROUGH, ENERGY CRISIS SOLVED. .. . .LET'S GET TO WORK!!!!!!!

nick - imho, "purple monkey dishwasher" illustrates the power of agitprop. why is INTENT an important hyperstitional consideration? because hyperstition has, among other things, transformational power. certainly recent events in the US show the depressing reality of how extremely easy it is to make fictions real. what do they say? reality is created by agreement.

imnvho, everyone has an agenda, which prove more powerful in groups & nations. when two or more are gathered together consensus, agreement, alignment & whatnot must be achieved first before initiating action. that's how change groups work, right? who gets to establish core objectives, policies, procedures? politico-religio-ideological leaders ... and power still corrupts.

however. hyperstition seems grounded in the philosophical & the ontological and appears to propose subtle & unique differences to the power of transformation. is transformation the fundamental hyperstitional concern? of course it is. anyone interested in making fictions real is involved in transformation. this is alchemy. changing water into wine ... atomic fission. splitting-the-atom. cell mitosis.

the other day i was reading a book review for "Impostures Intellectuelles" by Alain Sokal and Jean Bricmont ... an "exercise in intellectual and moral hygiene". apparently, philosophers aren't doing a good job explaining scientific concepts. which made me consider: what is philosopher? i realized it is the job of scientists and mathematicians to explain their concepts, not philosophers. if i were a philosopher and wrote a book i would want the reader to "experience" my thinking & being. i would clearly explain those concepts i am redefining. however, if i really wanted to throw you someplace i'd mention a word, an idea, a concept in passing. because i know, as philosopher, that eventually i'd catch you in a net of meaning.

studying philosophy these past few weeks has made me realize the importance of the philosophical conversation throughout history. it has established ideology. i imagine the current state of philosophy involves [1] can we still get it up, and [2] like Oppenheimer, philosophy has its Nagasakis & Hiroshimas - should we get it up?

so before i get wound up by someone's excite-up i'd like to know why the fuck we're saying: purple monkey dishwasher.

piet (another 86er!), northanger -
"imagine 3 instead of 1 railcircuitset sharing/bundling half of each trajectory (the bellows going down empty together)"
"i'd like to know why the fuck we're saying: purple monkey dishwasher"
- just woke up and already have a splitting head-ache - think i need to get back to you on these points ...

nick - of course you have a headache sweetie, you poured your little brains out ... poor you! excellent post, btw.

poetpiet = "another 86er!" - took you long enough, didn't it? you are aware that 86 = MESH-23 and you need to get reza that updated pandemonium matrix doncha?

Mesh-23. Oddubb (Odba). Broken Mirror. Pitch Null Net-Span 7::2 Syzygetic Chronodemon of Swamp-Labyrinths (and blind-doubles). Feeds Hold-Current. Rt-0:[X]. Time loops, glamour and glosses.

http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/004042.html
Mur Mur, meanwhile, carries echoes of the legends of Sea Beasts and ancient serpents; its time is the Deep Time of the ocean bed. Like Katak, it too, is horrified by what will follow it in the cycle; in this case, Oddubb (2/7), the amphibious entity, associated with the crossing out of water and the acquisition of lungs. What Mur Mur fears is the division that Oddubb brings, the splitting of the undivided waters. Oddubb is defined by ambiguous and elusive movement. As its name suggests, it is a ‘double-agency’, a duplicitous creature. It has a horror of dryness, of the state of being fully landlocked that comes with Katak. Which brings us full circle."

Oddubb - 'duplicity', 'doubling', cf also the incantations of Macbeth's witches - it is hard to imagine that Shakespeare wasn't remembering an invocation of Oddubb when he wrote the words of the Weird Sisters' spells.

http://www.orphandrift.com/technics.html
TIME RELATION: time rider. passes on time.
BLOOD ASPECT: circulation- currents, dangerous communication
MAGNETIC FIELDS: telepathic strange attractor labyrinths.

Thought I would bring this over ...

Nick: "Ideally 'pontification' (mea culpa x n) would be relegated to a carrier function, where it could be pursued far more vigorously and constructively.
Think part of the concrete method issue is sheer anthropology - Steven Pinker (in his IMHO brilliant 'The Blank Slate') suggests moral pontification is a natural human propensity, along with the associated tendencies to partisan organization (psychological test subjects divided into groups by coin-tossing quickly began to develop strong partisan loyalty to their 'tribe,' attributing all kinds of superior moral virues to it (over against 'the abominable tails' - i extrapolate)). Point is, we can either tolerate a degree of this human nonsense or try to stamp it out. Seems to me, best policy is tolerance without letting it get in the way of more important work.
Another (sort of related) question is whether a productive hyperstitional analysis of 'capitalism' can be launched here, locking onto topics with high Hyp. affinity, e.g. money, social science fiction, cyberspace, transhumanism, artificialization, pulp markets, telecommunism (or whatever other genuinely mutant strains of marxism) ... there are a huge number, but partisan cat-fighting and blind heel-digging tends to obstruct their rigorous elaboration - i'm agnostic about the prospects here, but some good carriers would probably help a lot ('good' in this context designating optimum blend of rigour, extremism, contagion and comic absurdity)" [Posted by: nick at February 19, 2005 08:39 AM ]

Nick, your comment about relegating moral pontification to the carrier level is interesting and I think we could unfold this a bit more, since to me this is more important than has been given space as yet. Some obvious but crucial questions:

1. What does fabricating a carrier involve and what are the typical steps in the production and development of a carrier?

2. Can one person (me for example) instigate the production and development of a carrier? If so then how would I go about it?

3. To what extent can the carrier be a properly fictional character, and the issues the carrier touches upon be fictional? Is what the carrier discovers, explores, postulates, etc still rooted in reality or free to be constituted of 'lies' (fictions acting as truths), since although theoretically hyperstionists may intend to generate what you may call 'untruths', the fact remains that readers will still be caught thinking ...

4. What does it practically involve for moral questions, arguments (for instance about WoT, politics etc) to be relegated to the carrier level?

5. [That Pinker suggests] "moral pontification is a natural human propensity, along with the associated tendencies to partisan organization" - fascinating comment - does this imply that moralising action is connected, through human evolution, with socialization into factions, parties?

If this is the case then alliegances are an important issue for hyperstition. Far from just being a question of personal loyalty, alliegances are embedded in a special (species-related) and social context. Since hyperstition aims to create social agencies beyond the individual and beyond personal morality, it has to confront the issue of alliegance since the special-social embeddedness of alliegance appears necessarily connected with morality, albeit of a partisan quality. So although personal morality and ego-centered thinking may be what hypersition attempts to bypass or utlise (we don't say transcend), morality and alliegance seems to be human traits hyperstition (construction of social agencies) cannot avoid since they are conceived as social and ultimately not individualistic.

Not sure how this relates to the relegation of morality to the carrier level, but interested in your feedback.

Tachi - highly productive q.s as always. I'll definitely try to put together another Hyp. carriers post to address these crucial issues.
Provisionally:
#1. Carrier construction massively 'undertheoirized' up to now - a running discussion on this would be excellent.
#2. Can you (for instance) float a carrier here? That would be a major step forward, as would anything that facilitated the conveyance of hyp. discussion through such artificial agencies, dismantling the automatic dogmatism of pseudotranscenedence, naturalizing the hypothetical stance and subjunctive mood (along with many other things, e.g. microsocial personality fragmentation).
#3. All these aspects of carriers only minimally explored. Perhaps a typology of carriers, emphasizing distinct functions, might ultimately be necessary.
#4. I assume carriers help to attain a state of moral irresponsibility consistent with unimpeded experimental research, but hugely open to thorough discussion on this.
#5. Think you're spot on with this - Pinker points to well known tenedency of human groups at all stages of 'social development' to withdraw the category of 'humanity' from their enemies.

Agree fully that allegiences crucial to hyperstition, but the important thing at this stage IMHO is to prevent internal factionalizing of hypersitional enterprise in a way that would inhibit its activities. That's why playing out cross-allegiences in a carrier puppet theatre would allow the problematic to be explored without excessive metalevel cat-fighting tearing everything apart (prematurely?)

northanger - updating P. Matrix task under urgent discussion. Won't be long ...
Still slightly hazy about the purple monkey dishwasher, but if it's remotely possible to work it out needn't feel obligated to give the game away just yet.
PS. Is it true you've written a guide to decoding piet? maybe that should become a side-bar resourse too.

nick - "Still slightly hazy about the purple monkey dishwasher, but if it's remotely possible to work it out needn't feel obligated to give the game away just yet." - your haze is my haze. i like what werner erhard said: when someone gets it over here, someone gets it over there. (or something like that). when you decloak the haze, i'm sure i will dehaze.

"guide to decoding piet" - yes, still working on it. pandemonium should set things aright.

Just to show you what a sewer the net really is (don't you agree? – the person who’se 168 page thesis I link to below the quotes can: We began our archaeology in the waste stream,
concentrating on the darkest, most hidden aspects of our
culture. Like Bataille, we were looking at our excess, our waste,
in an effort to learn more about who we really are.3 3
), here are some bittits, undigestible, nondigesting (in my deeper sense of the word, turning ‘concrete singularity’ into soft organicalbe multivalence), just scavingin and taking the easy way out. Or I could say that this work shows the limits of an utterly feminine approach in this work? Soft and sensitive translating to passive and superficial, hysterically optimistic through remote (woulda coul dash ouddunit be nice) stance/view.

Media Courage
impossible pedagogy in an
artificial community by Fred Issek

Columbine gunminimen anybody?? I know this is going over tired old ground without a trace of fresh ground or even grinding intentions but .. . . she puts it so that the common man can make sense of these (Ren Hoek voice): I D I O T S ! !! ! ! !

While his intention is to deconstruct the horizon of
philosophy, it is not Nancy’s intention to propose an “other
politics.” Rather, the necessity of the “plural singular of origin
comes into play.” There is no new politics or community, for it
has been philosophy in its mistaken singularity that has linked
itself to a “community of essence.” This process of community
building, according to Nancy, requires sacrifice. “If one looks
carefully, one can find the place of sacrifice in all political
philosophy (or rather, one will find the challenge of the abstract,
which makes a sacrifice of concrete singularity). But as singular
origin, existence is unsacrificable” (Being Singular Plural 25).
Just like Georges Bataille with his community of absence, Nancy
is pointing out that all community building implies an essence
that leaves as a remainder all that which is unassimilated. This
logocentric essence is the “One.” “The One as purely one is
less than one; it cannot be, be put in place, or counted. One
as properly one is always more than one. It is an excess of
unity; it is one-with-one, where its Being in itself is copresent”
(40).
Nancy blames philosophy’s preoccupation with essence and
community building for much of humankind’s expectation of
62
togetherness.

...
Nancy points out that it was Georges Bataille who first
noticed this and called it the “inner experience” which is tied up
with a sense of the community as, “neither a work to be
produced, nor a lost communion, but rather as space itself, and
the spacing of the experience of the outside, of the outside-ofself.”
The space around the self is the self’s proximity to
others, in this case, the proximity of community in death. The
community of absence is a community built around a longing for
something that is not there. As Benammar writes of Nancy and
his longing for community, “The community is not a political
community, such as the one proposed by communism, which
espoused not only common goals but also common and equal
rewards. The community is not part of our history. There is no
mythical past in which we had a community, community is not a
lost garden of Eden: the community is yet to come, the
community still lies in our future” (Benammar). Like Bataille,
Nancy sees community as absence, acquiring an identity only
around that which is missing. In our longing and in our mortal
isolation, we are community, seeing in the other the conditions
of our own birth and death.

Bataille, along with Nancy and others, realized community’s
impossibility. Bataille’s contribution to this understanding was to
seek the community without a head. As Nancy pointed out,
there is no “community of essence,” for such an essence would
imply a sacrifice of something. Concrete singularity is usually
sacrificed in the name of an abstraction that supposedly pulls
community together; or the Other is sacrificed in the name of
the One, excluded because it does not fit in. In the case of the
Acephale sacrifice, the head is offered up, so that headless, the
group is unified without a principle, without a logos, or the
imposition of any abstraction or essence on their primal sense of
community. In this way, the individual partakes in community,
without having his or her freedom negated.

In “Bataille’s Columbine: The Sacred Space of Hate,” Andrew
Wernick likens the sacrifice of Klebold and Harris to the sacrificial
gesture of Bataille’s Acephale – or headless - Society.
Wernick is not suggesting that the two teenaged boys

Ps: I wound up on this depressing page while going through 19 gooooooooooooooooooogles worth of Laurence Rickels pages (sadly, my fave, ‘musicphantoms’ didn’t show up, neither the colourful nor the printerfriendly version), most of what I found contain mere mentions of his involvements):

Conflict resolution is a trick. “The ability to
win an argument is the ability to create a complex form in which
people can't see that it's a suppressed premise that is the thing
that allows you to persuade them; or they can't find out what
your suppressed premise is, and are thus unable to respond
adequately to what you're saying” (Ulmer answering Rickels).

So, is that the most poetpietistic euphemism for the supremacy of trace ecology in the hellholewide warld or what?????

that last remark refers to 'suppressed premise'

I made a gender mistake referring to author with 'she' unless fred is short for frederika

submersible promise Heh.

For those curious about Rickels who has been mentioned but, RUDELY, not quoted, go here: http://www.xenarts.com/art_org/raw/psyfi/rickels.html -- PUSH name WITH CLOUSEMICKER and find perfectly passive run on but accurate commentary, slightly runny too perhaps but if you ain't sordided out how will you starts looking for where it all started to go o so horridly wrong.

p the limpet sure knows how to hang onto a topic ...

Piet - hortfedormer! - maybe you just ain't getting it. You need your own fucking blog. Does it have to spelt out in black and white? Not meaning to be cruel, but think you have way too much time on your hands. Your word-production/feedback ratio must be telling you something. Fuck deconstruction; and Nancy don't belong 'ere.

piet's already got a blog.

Nancy too dogmatic for ya? He blogns here

then he needs two ... or three for all this overspill

ah, been lax on my decodepoet project (sorry piety!). piet was the only one directly answering my question: we archeo this = sewer / waste / darkest, most hidden aspects of our culture (cthulhu fhtagn) + learn more about who we really are. undigestible, nondigesting bits, bytes ...((how do you turn pandemonium matrix number-system {poof!} everything conditions everything, a viral algorithm?))... never seek to control a strategy ... look for a way to unleash it. stationary flight a flight of intensity -- (((shabnameh))) THE enthymemic algorithm, the link to total dissimulation.

i know i know, my translation is still kinda raw. fast becoming thangeroid version of badiou.

no rthanky: "never seek to control a strategy ... look for a way to unleash it." --- hey not xaktlee but close - it's like those cartoon cross-continental races, standards and industrial products are out, all handmade artisan custom parts and put together in every constellation possible, no holds barred . .. . .takes 'it' (strategy) away from (obsessing over self) dangerous(ly emphasizable, inflatable) 'it' (relative of 'the') and brings 'them' up instead, that is to say, an unregulated, no I should say not centrally, remotely manipulable registration (greenthumb rule: the more remote, the more passive ((steady sealevellike)) the pool) biodiversity mimicking wildgrowth of strategy (multiculturalism is to some extent an anthromorphisized acting/playing out of the benefits organic derives from very rich mineral mixtures those that ranged widely ((ice age or continental heaters (((the ones straigth from the purifying tectonic fires of getwellhell))) amount to the same thing when it comes to dusts)), a very sad and well turmoily surrogate) united in their goal, the prize, get's us back to your 'it' again, unleashing a prudent modderrated amount of mudder we approach 'it' , as long as the goal is to cover (old tired) ground with (freshly) ground it just don't matter how you apply it, 5 years down the road, when the effects start to really kick in, the footprint and even the huge tiretrack are forgiven and thanked profusely, . .. .. .. is that a flour bouquet ghosted in my very being outed and exposed or what? Now I could use some help bring it to justice.

piet - "no rthanky" - stop. you're having way too much thangeroid fun.

FIRST MASHUP: "it's like those cartoon cross-continental races, standards and industrial products are out, all handmade artisan custom parts and put together in every constellation possible, no holds barred" - "takes strategy away from (obsessing over self) dangerous(ly emphasizable, inflatable)" - "strategy (relative of 'the') and brings 'them' up instead, that is to say, an unregulated, no I should say not centrally, remotely manipulable registration - biodiversity mimicking wildgrowth of strategy united in their goal, the prize, get's us back to your 'it' again, unleashing a prudent modderrated amount of mudder we approach 'it' , as long as the goal is to cover (old tired) ground with (freshly) ground it just don't matter how you apply it, 5 years down the road, when the effects start to really kick in, the footprint and even the huge tiretrack are forgiven and thanked profusely"

IT1 (north) = UNLEASH "IT"
IT2 (piet) = STRATEGY
THE = ???
THEM = ???

RUNNING THRU PIET-MOLARIZER: native multiple-constellation strategies [NMCS] ... [which removes STRATEGY away from dangerous IT1 bringing THEM up instead to] REMOTELY MANIPULABLE REGISTRATION [=INTELLIGENT AUTONOMOUS SYSTEMS] (AQ 295 = GREENTHUMB RULE = 1998 DODGE VIPER GTS = ALPHANUMBER TABLE = CAUSELESS HATRED = DE SUA FEMINA OLUN = DR. MICHAEL A. AQUINO = SEXUAL MATTERS = REALM OF THE GIVEN = TEARS STREAMING = DARKNESS IS AWAKE = HODOS CHAMELONIS = THE EMERALD TABLET = TWENTY POSTS = CORPUS CHRISTI) -- [NMCS] united goal & prize get's us back to IT1 again, unleashing a prudent modderrated amount of [AQ 119 = MUDDER = ANTI-CR = CROSS = PHOTO = POINT = SWARM = TAKFIR = WHO IS = JESUS = TAROT = AFGHANS = BECAUSE = BEYOND = BREAST = CARELESS = IXIDOD = NUMKO = OPIUM = PROUD = 2ND PATH = BATAIVA = ERETZ = HORNS = PRINCE = RULER = SOLIS = LAHGASH = MEDIUM = TEMPT = OLD ONE] we approach IT1.

AQ 71 = GOAL = BASE 26 = CUT = NASA = SET = UTC = VAU = VEGA = DISC = BOND = BETH = RAY = MAAT = AEON

as long as [GON1 66 = THE GOAL IS TO COVER (OLD TIRED) GROUND WITH (FRESHLY) GROUND = {AL(15) + BABALON(51)}] it just don't matter how you apply it, 5 years down the road, when the effects start to really kick in, [AQ 274 = THE FOOTPRINT = FANGED NOUMENON] and even [AQ 323 = THE HUGE TIRETRACK = TEMPORAL PROGRAM] are forgiven and thanked profusely, . .. .. ..

GON2 69 = FANGED NOUMENON TEMPORAL PROGRAM = PRE-CYBERNETIC NOSTALGIA

"is that a [GON2 27 = DIGITAL HYPERSTITION] outed and exposed or what? Now I could use some help [GON2 23 = BRING IT TO JUSTICE = {why do you think i take the bother of decoding you? ++ btw, this was a huge numerological GON2 PING}]."

sorry to have supplied broken headbreakers

that is to say, an unregulated, no I should say not centrally, remotely manipulable registration -
should be

that is to say, STRATEGIZING HAPPENS IN an unregulated, no I should say not centrally, THUS remotely manipulable registratEGIZING MODE, but rather in a .. .. biodiversity etcetera. .. ..

there will probably be more of these sorts of inversions, they happen to me frequently

foliation strategy, unfolding strata, churned into the powder to swell, the 'bloem'(dutch for dust ..eh . ..I mean flower, also used for grainmeals), does that make scents or douleur?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_flour John D Hamaker was a man who studied the role trace mineral spectra distribution plays in health. He advocated conversion of all hardware in mimickers of this natural process (exposing a fresh supply to biospherical absorption / transformation) in order to take over and thus stave of one of the most clockworklike reasons climate changes (ice ages) happen regularly: trace depletion.

Another person noting lack and/or superabundance (toxicity) levels of traces (but instead of a focus on climate and ice age cycles he zeros in on BSE - mad cow disease) is Mark Purdey.

more (crashcrush and) carry the carryer resources:

I'm debating which links for John D I should stick up at wiki

these:

TERRA: Living Soil
... Over thirty years ago, John Hamaker (1914-1994), engineer, farmer, ecologist and
true polymath, did what is undoubtedly some of the most significant original ...
www.championtrees.org/topsoil/feedsoil.htm - 16k - In cache - Gelijkwaardige pagina's

Stone Age Agriculture
... SHELLEY FIRST HEARD OF JOHN HAMAKER FIVE YEARS AGO at a Natural Organic Farmers
conference when Joanna Campe, publisher of Remineralize the Earth journal ...
www.championtrees.org/topsoil/stoneage.htm - 20k - In cache - Gelijkwaardige pagina's
[ Meer resultaten van www.championtrees.org ]

or these:

SEER Centre - Research
... The publication of John Hamaker's book, The Survival of Civilization, alerted the
community to the continuing depletion of inorganic trace minerals that are ...
www.seercentre.org.uk/original/ research-soil-remineralisation.html - 41k

http://www.gardening-guy.com/stories/storyReader$151

www.remineralize.org/don/ - 2k

ps to strikestress: had a vivid dream too . ..a huuuuuuge adventure at the end of which a lady died through my fault (letting go of her hand she fell but did not shatter until she had completed a series of those hi-lee diff trampoline/dive contortwists (killing time or keeping warm on the way down?)

Nah, won't bother on second thought, I'll end up formulating too inaccesibly and someone will throw it all out again, as happened to my november efforts there, recorded here: members.lycos.nl/vadercats/nov04too.htm

piet - "ps to strikestress: had a vivid dream too . ..a huuuuuuge adventure at the end of which a lady died through my fault (letting go of her hand she fell but did not shatter until she had completed a series of those hi-lee diff trampoline/dive contortwists (killing time or keeping warm on the way down?)"

lol.