What should be an obvious point, well made:
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21447

Seems a tad alarmist to me, though this isn't to say Murray is wrong. Sure, the cartoons have kicked up a wave of threats but where is the real evidence of the 'lights going out'? "All across Europe, debate on Islam is being stopped" - this is quite a claim, backed by what? That several politicians need proterction is surely a cause for concern. That police in the UK have been able to protect mosques (how many, when and where?) but not the office of a newspaper, is also a worry. But exactly how much of a worry? Where is the perspective here?

tachi - surely its beyond question that freedom of expression is disappearing rapidly from Europe (due to a mixture of violent Islamist intimidation, State PC thought-policing and neurotic self-censorship)? Otherwise, why are all the articulate critics of totalitarian Islam in exile, in hiding ... or dead？

I tried to find complete list of US papers that reprinted the cartoons last night, but couldn't. Philadelphia Inquirer, the Sun, Austin-Statesman I remember, but there were no more than two or three more. We definitely went in that direction, too, especially at the first--it was easy to try to appease before the gross stupidities began, then no choice but to support Denmark. I guess most impressive are the journalists in Jordan, Egypt, etc., who went to jail for it--amazing, and not a Judy Miller in the bunch, as far as I could tell. In process, I signed Michelle Malkin's online petition.

Nick--I just read the Manifesto after posting above note. Fantastic Bernard-Henri Levy would be there with the Aayan Hirsi Ali and the great Salman Rushdie (Rushdie ought to get the Nobel Peace Prize if that weren't such a piece of shit.) Levy's recent silly and tiresome 'tour of the US' was reviewed by Garrison Keillor, one of our popular hayseed types--they deserved each other on this one. But here he makes a good constellation even better.

"I guess most impressive are the journalists in Jordan, Egypt, etc., who went to jail for it ..."
- absolutely. 'Our' true allies.

select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F40817FF355A0C718EDDAB0894DE404482

I think I was inaccurate about which Arab journalists went to jail. The Egyptians didn't, but Jordanians and Yemenis did.

the manifesto even made its way onto the bbc:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4763520.stm

The massively important thing about the Manifesto is that it shifts opinion from 'moderate muslim' BS to what should be the real focus of Liberal Civilization in this conflict: Dissident Muslims, ex-Muslims, Heretics, Apostates and Secularists.
In WWIII no one was talking about 'moderate communists' (except for fellow-travellers in the Western left and other 'useful idiots') but rather about 'Soviet dissidents' - when the same pattern recurs, it will be a sign that some seriousness is in sight at last.

Nick - an excellent point. Hmmm. The cause of Soviet dissidents very much depended on vocal and articulate emigres, but also on the dissemination of illicit texts within the Soviet Bloc. So, the cause of "Dissident Muslims, ex-Muslims, Heretics, Apostates and Secularists" needs to be a lot more vocal/publicised, both in tyrannized and beleaguered lands - this might be a real test of whether the blogosphere really does have any clout.

sd - think there's every reason for confidence, GIVEN resolute allegience to the right people (and avoiding detentiste Cartering about). We know now that the dissidents in the communist bloc were totally appreciative of the Reagan/Thatcher zero-BS confrontational stance to their oppressors. Time to remember that.

At the Brussels Journal, Paul Belien dissents from the Manifesto (making an articulate but IMHO less than compelling case). Good links.
www.brusselsjournal.com/node/869

This unusually sane Muslim Manifesto is also worth a look:
www.nationalreview.com/comment/akyol_baran200603010816.asp

+ this important debate between Mansoor Ijaz (author of manifesto directly above) and Andrew C. McCarthy:
www.opinionduel.com/debate/?q=NDk=

i absolutely do not get why Islam needs to be ... "reformed".

++ this fasinating:
nationaljournal.com/rauch.htm
(on Internet-conveyed classical liberalism in Arab world)

northanger - then you agree with Mansoor Ijaz. He argues this (IMHO highly implausible) case with exceptional grace and sanity.

scuze me. but i forgot ... did they throw a big Koran at the WTC, or was it a couple of american airliners? maybe i missed the memo. damn, i hate when that happens.

northanger, maybe it's not Islam per se that is need of reform, but rather its role in government. Civil society - on the classic liberal model - requires a separation of religious authority from the state (even if this is an often unattainable ideal). Freedom of conscience and equality before the law are basic presuppositions of secular society - these are evidently not provided in theocratic Islamic states.

Fareed Zakaria argues that Islam cannot be reformed in the same way that Christianity was because it 'lacks' a centralized authority like the Papacy was, so there is no one official interpretation of the Koran which can be reformed. The Koran is already interpreted in many ways, ranging from OBL's psychotic fundamentalism to the moderate, secular-compatible Islam espoused by Mansoor, so, in a sense, Islam is already at a stage equivalent to protestant individual interpretation.

IMHO, the crux of the matter is whether the Five Pillars of Islam permit some freedom of conscience.

[excuse the despicable crudity of these comments - in a rush]

sd - sure you're correct some kinda way. but, so what? Islam does not have to be "reformed" in the USA. however, we do have problems with the black vote if you're interested. no? ok.

i can't believe people really expect to rationally deal with the utterly irrational.

erm, exactly how do you know what i'm not interested in?

this thread is about Islamic fundamentalism btw.

'i can't believe people really expect to rationally deal with the utterly irrational.' well Mansoor Ijaz proves there are eminently rational elements - not necessarily doomed to failure.

sd - forgive my facetiousness. imho, the black vote & Islam share the same problems: corruption, power, politics & control.

northanger - but in putting it that way, aren't you presupposing an answer to the very point in contention -- assuming that nothing doctrinally essential or even substantive to Islam is of any consequence to the question?

BtW, I'm with the NRA of course: airplanes don't kill people, people kill people (possibly with a little help from vengeful divinities).

nick. bad example, black vote isn't anybody's religion. imho, the West wants to put Islam's head on the block. i would think a Muslim would be deeply offended if non-believers put comments in their suggestion box. not a good way to start a conversation.

northanger - not at all sure what you're saying about the black vote. It's interesting, but have to agree with sd it seems entirely red-herringish.

"the West wants to put Islam's head on the block" - not sure we're perceiving the same planet at this stage. All the head chopping and threats thereof have been running distinctly the other way from my PoV, not to mention the Indians, Thais, Filipinos, Nigerians and numerous other miscellaneous nonwestern head-choppees

sure non-believers would love to stay out of the "suggestion box" if they could, but then this Global Jihad thingummy (or thing ummah) started re-arranging the skyline of their cities. It's technocompression, forcing everyone into everyone else's face, and probably quite a productive development eventually, but in the short term its going to be messy (and distinctly impolite)

This Samizdata thread is good:
www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/008668.html

nick. red-herringish, already said. forgive head-chopping pun, but it's true. don't entirely get your non-believer vs. believer focus. can't a jihad be viewed simply as a declaration of war?

[groan]

"can't a jihad be viewed simply as a declaration of war?" -- ummm, yes.

samizdiot

didn't mean you, honest.

Danes reopen their Jakarta embassy & there's two earthquakes in Bengkulu.

northanger - your embargo of this site is going almost as well as the UN oil-for-food programme in pre-liberation Iraq

This joke by (yet another) 'permanentexpat' on the Samizdata thread was spookily germane:
"If you can keep your head when those about you are losing theirs, you are obviously not aware of the seriousness of the situation."

nicholas, don't tempt me.

Sieg Heil!

Is that a subtle reference to the widely noticed fact that "Mein Kampf" means "Jihad" in German?

really ironic everyone thinking Bush trashing this country (USA). no, we're already nazis. that reminds me, i've been meaning to do a post on habbakuk for the longest time.

"we're already nazis" - christo-soci*list self-flagellation going into overdrive today, don't you think?

sounds like a good idea to me.

northanger--no matter how bad things get, they can always get worse. Don't agree that it's ironic Bush is trashing the country just because it's already trashed--you can always trash it some more, and Bush does that as a form of sinistral inertia, even though he claims to be right wing. It's just easier to keep doing what you're already doing, like what that Ellen Langer pointed out in her 'mindful learning' series (although she reversed the reflex, and everybody should; this way you can get something practical done that even reading all of 'Being and Time' will not afford. Who needs Heidegger anymore? Not that we need Sarah Jessica Parker either...). Whatever else he is (very limited number of things a 2D freak can be), he's not into 'mindful learning.' Read Bruce Wagner's 'The Chrysanthemum Palace' to find out exactly how even most of the original Disneyland is just shops with loud-music ads. American culture has gone to the devil, and Bush can't even get out of Chinese doors (that was a good sign.)

"If you can keep your head when those about you are losing theirs, you are obviously not aware of the seriousness of the situation."

that is more applicable to persons who insulate themselves in foreign countries (I can't imagine who) than those who insulate themselves in the U.S. (I can imagine who, but it's not Bush, who never had a head to begin with and is an alcoholic, so how could he 'not lose it'?)

"Bush, who never had a head to begin with and is an alcoholic" ... he also gnaws on the bones of black babies while snorting coke in S&M sessions with Rove and Cheney, but I try to avoid letting that sort of thing distract me from his greatness as a leader.

That's clear enough, were those his bent(s). (I had to put that part in, due to libel law.)

>>you can always trash it some more, and Bush does that as a form of sinistral inertia

okay, new york. good point taken. however, parker-aversion uncalled for, i aver Parker definitively needed.

nicholas - stop projecting.

however, parker-aversion uncalled for, i aver Parker definitively needed

Explain, s'il vous plait.

qui qui, monsieur.

Several years ago, Knoll simultaneously discovered the Pease-Brunnian link both proving the Pease-Borromean theory & further extrapolating the Anderson-Prinsessen-på-ærten formulæ). Essentially, the mesencephalic and cortical enhancer regulation and the proof that phenylethylamine (PEA) and tryptamine are endogenous mesencephalic enhancer substances. Demonstrating that PEA and the amphetamines have a dual effect: {1} they are in low concentration 'enhancers' and {2} in high concentration releasers of catecholamines. Phenylethylamine functions as a neuromodulator or neurotransmitter found in many foods, especially after microbial fermentation, e.g., in chocolate. It has been suggested that phenethylamine from food (e.g., chocolate) may have psychoactive effects in sufficient quantities. However, it is quickly metabolized by the enzyme MAO-B, preventing significant concentrations from reaching the brain (a critical failure, most serious scientist agree). The phenethylamine structure can also be found as part of more complex ring systems such as the ergoline system of LSD, the morphinan system of morphinem and, most specifically, the Oankali-Borromean rings. (Parenthetically, current research indicates that chocolate is a weak stimulant because of its content of theobromine — despite its name, the compound contains no bromine — theobromine is derived from Theobroma, the genus of the cacao tree, which is composed of the Greek roots theo ("God") and broma ("food"), meaning "food of the gods"). OTOH, the most well-known tryptamines are serotonin, an important neurotransmitter, and melatonin, a hormone involved in regulating the sleep-wake cycle. Prominent examples include psilocybin (from "magic mushrooms") and DMT (from numerous plant sources, e.g. ayahuasca). The tryptamine backbone can also be identified as part of the structure of some more complex compounds, for example: ergoline alkaloids, LSD, ibogaine and yohimbine.

Honestly, no one can beat Carol Burnett's stellar performance of Princess Winnifred the Woebegone. But, surely, the 1997 revival with equally luminous Sarah Jessica Parker proved the validity of teaching hard-science to high school students. Her thematic-recursion of the role is a constantly affectionate reminder of situational science's major achievement (from fantasy to fact): WHY Princess Winnifred couldn't sleep on that damn pea.

Northanger--how beautiful yet totally incomprehensible. I can only add that Carol Burnett as Eunice Higgins was an American Glory, but Sarah Jessica may charm, but not with her singing voice. One of the most odious aspects of American contemporary pop culture is allowing people who can't sing or dance to do so, e.g., the film of 'chicago,' where they cannot any of them dance for shit. that was a dance show with Bob Fosse's dames (Verdon and the gorgeous Reinking), they just left his choreography out so that little Zellweger girl could de-romanticize Roxie

i swear new york, you're a puff adder.

[cough] tangential

[finger] hit the delete button